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Comment reply on reesees's Completed Build: The Upgrade

  • 21 months ago
  • 2 points

I had owned a FX 8320 that I had overclocked to 4.7 GHz and I currently have a Ryzen 7 1800x @ 4.0 GHz and a Pentium G4600 @ 3.6 GHz. I play World of Warcraft among other games and games like wow are much more on the CPU than on the GPU. When the expansion Legion launched I found myself with a vram bottleneck so I sold off my R9 270x and bought a RX 470 GPU within the first week of the expack. I still used ther FX system then and didn't upgrade to the Ryzen until after I got my tax rebates back in april 2017. When I built my Ryzen I just kept the same RX 470 since it still is a decent GPU, that way I would have more money to apply to other parts in the PC.

To show the difference between the CPUs on my main PCs I normally record to my drive and upload later so I can produce 1080p videos as my internet upload will cause dropped frames streaming at 1080p. Here are 2 videos in the same Legion expansion where I had 17 people in each raid:

If you hit the gear in the bottom right corner of the video and set speed to 0.5 on both videos this will also exagerate the performance difference even more. I did run different ingame settings on both where aside from textures maxed out on the FX PC I had everything else reduced to minimal. For the Ryzen I had 10 ultra max settings. I struggled with FPS on the FX CPU where I would tank down to ~20 fps in boss fights with sub 20 people in the group and when comparing both videos you can see the difference in how smooth the gameplay is. To me it is night and day especially when I consider the difference in game settings. If I tried max settings on my FX I would stop counting my FPS Frames per Second and start counting SPF, Seconds per Frame.

Now fast forward to a couple weeks ago I got myself a GTX 1070 for my main rig so I moved that very same RX 470 to my HTPC that is rocking a budget pentium G4600. I decided to do a livestream test as people on the WoW hardware forums were claiming for any kind of basic livestreaming you needed a ton of CPU cores and were suggesting x299 and x399 platforms. I wanted to show that the iGPU in CPUs can be used to do the encoding so you don't need a ton of extra cores to accomplish this. I had the stream output to 720p @30 FPS because of my internet upload speed but this is still using a dual core CPU. I left the FPS showing in the bottom center as I normally have it off for my kill videos so it isn't as distracting.

I had the settings at 7 preset which is FAR higher still than the FX PC and average framerates in a raid of 25 people, far more than the other 2 videos was still in the 50s with the odd dip in the 40s. The FX cpu would only dream of getting near that FPS in raids on minimal settings.

From my personal experience even a budget pentium CPU does better in gaming over a FX CPU hands down. Now on other games that are less CPU bound and more GPU bound the gap in performance will not be anywhere near as bad as it is with the examples I provided but the difference is still there.

This should show the overclock I had on my FX CPU: https://imgur.com/a/VQjcVoG

Comment reply on Mannering's Completed Build: Ryzen Mini-ITX Cube

  • 21 months ago
  • 1 point

Really nice shoebox build. The only thing I could see a problem with is the front intake fan. As seeing how the case's front panel is solid and it takes in air by the holes along the side I would have seen if it would be possible to have the fan installed on the inside of the frame instead of outside. The reason I say this is because when you have the front panel on the gap from that fan to the solid front panel is really tiny and would suffocate the fan. By that point you are really relying on the 2x 80mm fans to keep temps under control. If the 200mm fan was on the inside of the metal frame it would have another 1.5cm of breathing room in front of it increasing its effectiveness.

Comment reply on bakersbuns's Completed Build: i3-6100 Budget Build

  • 21 months ago
  • 2 points

Link on PCPartPicker for the Hyper T4 if you wanna update your build: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/Jsdqqs/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rrt418pkr1

Could not use stock since I overclocked it.

Now how did you manage to overclock a non K skew Intel i3 CPU? The only way I recall this was possible was with messing with the base clock on some of the z170 boards using their original BIOS on launch. Those BIOS did have some stability issues as this was the first time skylake was released but definitely not to the degree of the AM4 platform launch. I didn't think you could even adjust the voltage to help with stability when increasing the base clock of the board.

My HTPC has a Pentium G4600 and without overclocking the only difference between the CPUs is 100mhz faster on the i3 and ~8% faster integrated graphics on the pentium. The IPC is identical between the 2 as there was no change from skylake to kabylake or even to coffeelake.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "AIO Leaks."

  • 21 months ago
  • 1 point

Well using an AIO is just fine and they do work really well. If aesthetics are important as long as the function is being handled then go for it. I just prefer air coolers myself but as stated before it is due to my own personal preference. I would rather educate on them as there is no one solution for everyone when it comes to what cooler to use.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "CPU recommendation: Ryzen 3 1200; or Pentium Gold (g5400, 5500, 5600)"

  • 21 months ago
  • 2 points

Agreed. Pentium gold CPUs are following the same model of the kabylake pentiums. Some are 2 core 2 thread and some models G5400 and higher are 2 core 4 thread like the older i3 CPUs. The price on the G5400 is the most reasonable out of the 3 that have HT and all 3 have very close clock rates.

The r3 1200 CPU is 4 core 4 thread and can overclock. Not to mention a H7 cooler is more than ample to get that chip to 4.0 GHz if silicon lotto permits. Should at least be able to hit 3.8.

Hyperthreading is not as good as adding cores as all it does is better use the cores you have. It can allow a 2nd process through the same core on the same clock cycle to better use the core's IPC. Both processes cannot exceed what that one core is capable of. Having 4 cores will have more performance over 2.

Modern triple A game titles may still play on a 2 core 4 thread CPU will scale better with 4 actual cores. This is what gave the i5 CPUs from haswell (or earlier) to kabylake a lead over the i3 cpus of the same generation.

If you get a cheaper Pentium Gold CPU that is 2 core 2 thread you will find some games that will refuse to start because it doesn't detect 4 CPU threads. Far cry 4 and Dragon Age Inquisition comes to mind.

Comment reply on mwofsey's Completed Build: Great White Ryzen Sun

  • 21 months ago
  • 1 point

Well that CPU won't be overheating any time soon on a cooler like that. I am curious why you chose a 1000w PSU for a system that will have a max power draw of ~400w. Are you planning a future upgrade to 2 way SLI titan GPUs?

32GB is a hefty amount of ram and should be great for some hefty video editing. Clean build overall.

Comment reply on Flika1999's Completed Build: Cardboard Box PC

  • 22 months ago
  • 5 points

Looks like that cardboard case is right on "Target"!

Comment reply on Bermudachili's Completed Build: AMD Ryzen 5 1500X (First Build)

  • 22 months ago
  • 3 points

A serious producer or editor will have anywhere between 32gb and 64gb of ram. Entry level producers really should have about 16GB. There are a bunch of newer games that recommend higher than 8GB of ram and sure they may play fine on 8gb of ram I just think of realistic use between users. If a bunch of stuff is open it could take more ram to where it may be an issue with only 8GB.

That being said I didn't say to go upgrade right now, just it is something to think about later on in the future and with 4 ram slots on his motherboard an upgrade like that will be easy to add. We are getting to a time where people can start using more than 8GB which really sucks because of ram pricing. Not to mention there is still no light at the end of the tunnel yet on ram pricing.

There are 2 videos that tested ram usage on more modern games that are rather recent. This video made by Linus Tech Tips and this video from Hardware Unboxed

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How much intake and exhaust should I have."

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

yes you can skip buying 3 of those RGB fans if you dont care about RGB and use the 3 fans that comes with the radiator.

As far what push is you have the fans on the bottom side of the radiator blowing into the rad going up and out the top of the case.

Comment reply on FatBoyJD's Completed Build: AMD "Game^Cube" (Budget Ryzen 3 update)

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

That is what I did with all my Wii games as my console was stolen by an old tennent and I was never able to get it back. I still had all my games though and I didn't want to buy a new console. The dolphin bar and emulator was a godsend.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How much intake and exhaust should I have."

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Well I thought about use of the PC too when I saw threadripper and I have been seeing people want to build x299 and x399 builds for gaming because the parts are expensive. People tend to think expensive means better but that is not always the case. There are workloads people do that can take advantage of a ton of CPU cores/threads far more than consumer chips and workloads like that are great on a 16 core 32 thread CPU.

Problem is in gaming with soo many cores in a CPU you end up with a couple of bottlenecks that hurt gaming performance because you won't be able to OC all cores to 4.0 GHz on that chip. Or at least not easily if at all possible. The VRMs can only deliver so much power and you have 16 cores worth of heat to dissipate off the CPU so the bottlenecks are both power delivery and heat. In most cases you have lower clocks per core due to having soo many cores and games just can't scale with more cores. As a result the faster the few cores a game uses the better its performance. That is how x299 and x399 is actually worse of game performance compared to a consumer chip.

AMD has the better price to performance in a few price brackets and does game rather well but if money is no object and you are not considering price to performance coffeelake CPUs overclocked to 5.0 GHz will deliver the top gaming performance. Also if someone is into content creation and still wants more cores but not serious enough to need thread ripper then a r7 2700x or i7-8700k both are awesome options with the r7 having more multicore power overall and the i7 having the higher gaming experience.

What is the most important use of the PC is what needs to be considered when picking parts which is why I asked his usage early on. He said video editing and gaming. Thread Ripper is sacrificing gaming performance for more high end content creation but as I do not know the OP personally and know how far he is taking it I am not sure if it is the best compromise of if he can really benefit from thread ripper as much as he think he may. This really isn't my call to make so I didn't push the matter further.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How much intake and exhaust should I have."

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

The way I would do it is have the x2 140mm fans intake at the front, 1x 120mm in the bottom as intake, 3x 120mm on the AIO radiator as exhaust.

In the end you will have 2x 140mm + 1x 120mm intake and 3x120mm exhaust which should equal a pressure positive case. I know there are dust filters for the 2 front intake fans but I don't know if the bottom one is filtered. If is or you can get a filter to cover the bottom intake then your case will have some awesome dust control along with great airflow for cooling.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Wraith Prism Cooler vs H7?"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

We have been discussing several topics together on multiple threads tonight mark lmao.

Auto OC is a great feature for a number of people because I know many who will never touch manual overclocking with a 10 foot pole. Then there are people like me, if I can OC it I will.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "CPU compatibility with Motherboard"

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

I am all too familiar about how PC hardware effects PC gaming performance and the effects of the CPU. I am upvoting your post as if I had his PC and wanted to upgrade I would do a similar upgrade for a new GPU. There are many games (mainly almost all triple A game titles in the past 5 years) are optimized for 4 cores but still play really well on a 2 core 4 thread CPU such as the i3 CPUs at the time. GTA V is a great example with this.

With his GPU being in the power of a budget card upgrading that would have the largest benefit to gaming FPS overall. So I fully agree with you. Games that are really CPU bound where upgrading his GPU won't have much effect (World of Warcraft for example) can only really use 1-2 cores so only a minor bump in clock speed on the CPU will only have a tiny increase in performance.

Comment reply on FatBoyJD's Completed Build: AMD "Game^Cube" (Budget Ryzen 3 update)

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Look up on youtube Wii vs Dolphin emulator and Dolphin can actually play wii games better than the original wii ever could. It can run resolutions much higher than Wii's native 480p resolutions and add AA too.

My Black Ice HTPC after adding my RX 470 that used to be in my main rig is able to play Wii at 1080p with 8x AA and the quality compared to the Wii is night and day. OP's build should be powerful enough to do the same thing if not very close.

Comment reply on FatBoyJD's Completed Build: AMD "Game^Cube" (Budget Ryzen 3 update)

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Look for a dolphin bar on amazon and you can use Wii controllers with a PC. With an emulator you can play Wii games on a PC. This PC should be more than ample to run such an emulator.

+1 from me as this budget build looks really good.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "CPU compatibility with Motherboard"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Well, most probably (for some particular reason) the OP isn't satisfied with that i3 processor. ;)

I kind of figured that but I thought I would give my opinion that his current CPU is not trash.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "CPU Cooler Upgrade?"

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

The way I look at Ryzen and current Intel temps is as follows:

  • -100c is thermal throttle range to prevent self damage.
  • -80c is the highest safe max temp for keeping the lifespan of the CPU
  • -anything less on max load for temps is gravy

If you are getting 60c on max load you should be fine and the only reason to change the air cooler is to a more silent version. At least the stock coolers that come with the Ryzen CPUs are not that loud and is the exact opposite as the cooler that came with my FX 8320 several years back. That crappy stock cooler if running 100% speed in my living room I could hear upstairs in my bedroom with the door shut! Sounded like a jet engine.

I am so glad AMD is doing much better on stock coolers. AMD has the view of being a budget option for price to performance and not having to buy an aftermarket cooler does make a huge difference on a tight budget.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "CPU compatibility with Motherboard"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

He "could" still get an i5-7600k and add a budget air cooler like the Cryorig h7 or Hyper 212 evo. It will have higher base and turbo clocks without overclocking but you are correct that he won't be able to take advantage of the overclocking on the CPU due to his motherboard.

I am not sure though what i3 OP has, the i3-6100 or i3-7100. TBH even though neither will be a top performer they both should still be able to game rather decently where I would not say upgrading is even mandatory.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Ryzen 7 2700x Or The i9-7900x For A Gaming & Streaming Build."

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

If you want the absolute top gaming performance AND you want to livestream there are a couple options. Now for gaming you want your CPU and GPU to be saved for the game and for encoding the livestream you want to offload it to something else so it does not compete for performance. The expensive way is to run 2 PCs and have one game and the other stream the game but that really isn't needed. The other option is to offload the live encoding to a iGPU. I did a video about using a Pentium G4600 and live streaming to youtube. You can find that video HERE

In that video the game WoW runs about the same as it would if I was not livestreaming and it hardly used any CPU power. I had to enable the iGPU in the bios since I did have a dedicated video card installed and in OBS I was able to set its processing to use Intel Quick Sync which is the iGPU. Although my internet upload sucks I can only upload at 720p or else I get dropped frames but running 1080p @ 60fps was only using ~40% of the iGPU on that CPU. This I checked self recording to my PC and using GPUz to monitor the iGPU usage.

Neither of those 2 CPUs have a iGPU in it but both the i5-8600k and i7-8700k have an igpu. Now both those CPUs are currently the absolute top performers in gaming in all games if you ignore the price to performance scale. Ryzen tends to fit price to performance builds but are still good cpus. You do not need to get a 10 core CPU to live stream and the more cores your CPU has the harder it is to get overclocked to a high frequency due to heat and power draw limitations. Also there is very little if any difference in gaming from the i5-8600k and the i7-8700k if both clocked at 5.0 GHz. The i7 would handle video editing later on a bit better due to its hyperthreading.

I doubt you are going to be streaming anything higher than 1080p because it is really easy to get bottlenecked on your upload speed. I only have 10mbps upload and like 150 mbps download with my internet and I find I get a lot of dropped frames uploading 1080p 30fps. 720p 30 and 60 fps is much more doable in my connection.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How much intake and exhaust should I have."

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

I was thinking more like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Type Item Price
CPU AMD - Threadripper 1950X 3.4GHz 16-Core Processor $879.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Enermax - LiqTech TR4 360 102.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler $132.15 @ Newegg
Thermal Compound Thermal Grizzly - Kryonaut 1g 1g Thermal Paste $11.10 @ Newegg Marketplace
Motherboard Asus - ROG ZENITH EXTREME EATX TR4 Motherboard $414.71 @ Amazon
Memory G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory $326.99 @ Newegg
Storage Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive $199.99 @ B&H
Storage Seagate - FireCuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive $89.99 @ Amazon
Video Card Asus - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB ROG STRIX Video Card $669.89 @ OutletPC
Case Corsair - 750D Airflow Edition ATX Full Tower Case $149.99 @ Amazon
Power Supply Corsair - RMx 850W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply $137.00 @ Amazon
Case Fan Corsair - ML120 PRO RGB 47.3 CFM 120mm Fan $34.19 @ Newegg
Case Fan Corsair - ML120 PRO RGB 47.3 CFM 120mm Fan $34.19 @ Newegg
Case Fan Corsair - ML120 PRO RGB 47.3 CFM 120mm Fan $34.19 @ Newegg
Case Fan Corsair - ML120 PRO RGB 47.3 CFM 120mm Fan $34.19 @ Newegg
Case Fan Corsair - ML140 PRO RGB 55.4 CFM 140mm Fan $39.30 @ Newegg
Case Fan Corsair - ML140 PRO RGB 55.4 CFM 140mm Fan $39.30 @ Newegg
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total $3227.16
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-04-25 20:46 EDT-0400

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How much intake and exhaust should I have."

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Radiator will only fit in the top and I would just do 3 fans as push so you can see the fans better as being RGB fans. It is not a super thick high density radiators so there won't be much benefit for push/pull. Especially with decent fans to begin with.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Ryzen 3 1300X vs 2200G - opinions please!"

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Another use of the iGPU in the r3 2200g is for live streaming. With this patch in OBS you can get OBS to use the IGPU in the Ryzen APU to live encode the video for upload. People have been doing this with the igpu in Intel CPUs for years and I even did a video about it in a Pentium G4600 PC.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Wraith Prism Cooler vs H7?"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

This video may help from JaysTwoCents https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JRY0Ri2VoM

He tested overclocking with the prism cooler on the 2700x.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How much intake and exhaust should I have."

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/FJx2FT/corsair-ml120-pro-rgb-473-cfm-120mm-fan-co-9050075-ww

That is the 120mm size of those exact fans you selected. Keep 2 of your originally selected fans and get 4 of the 120mm version if you want everything to match.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How much intake and exhaust should I have."

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

I remember that video. Now OP's situation is different because the CPU is a might higher heat generation compared to that video. Also he is getting a 360mm rad that will only fit in the top and should be using a 360mm due to the head dissipation of the radiator. This video from Science Studio explains it a bit and this video from Gamers Nexus also touches this topic.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "I3-8350k or i5-8400"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Well if you do get the i3 now even if you decide to play new games you should still be fine. Think of buying a 4 core i3 now on the same level of buying an ivybridge i3-3*** line back when it was first released as far as core count demands. Games like GTA V and other tripleA game titles in the past few years can use 4 CPU cores but still play well on a 2 core 4 thread CPU.

Basically out of the 2 CPUs there both good choices and have their own niche.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How much intake and exhaust should I have."

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Your AIO takes 3x 120mm fans instead of 140mm. Front 2 fans and back fan are 140MM but bottom fan size specs I can't find so it is possible you may need a 120mm fan in the bottom.

Out of the 6 140mm fans selected you might have to swap 4 of them to 120mm versions of the same fans.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "I3-8350k or i5-8400"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

There is about a 2~3% IPC difference between Ryzen and Intel with Intel in the lead. They are within spitting distance performance wise so an Intel chip at 4GHz vers a Ryzen at 4GHz will be very close but Intel will still be a tad higher. May not be able to tell in a blind side by side test kind of close. Now that benchmark you mentioned I am not sure if the r5 1600 was on stock speeds 3.2GHz with a single core turbo of 3.6GHz or if it was overclocked to 4.0 GHz or to some other frequency. Also you never mention what game it was for the 180 FPS benchmark. I know games like Doom are capped at 200 due to physics bugs that happen in higher FPS limits and such.

Keep in mind the IPC from Kabylake to Coffeelake did not change so core for core if at the same speed both will have the same speed. That means an i5-7600k OC to 5.0 GHz will perform identically to a i3-8350k OC to 5GHz as both are 4 core CPUs. The i5 and i7 coffeelake CPUs just has 50% more cores/threads compared to Kabylake.

I can't really tell you which of the 2 to get as both has pros and cons so I figured I would point both out so you could decide what fits what you want more. The i3-8350k will give the top gaming performance possible out of the 2 CPUs for the games you listed only because said games can't take advantage of the 2 added cores the i5-8400 has and games like some of the newest Triple A game titles and future tripleA game titles will scale better on the 6 core as they are starting to benefit from having 6 cores in the PC. The i5-8600k if you can stretch for it will have the best of both worlds. Only a few games now can benefit from 6 cores over 4 with more coming in the future,

Comment reply on Forum Topic "AIO Leaks."

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Leaks are something that "Can" happen with AIOs, not things that "Will" happen with them. There are pros and cons between AIOs and air coolers and to my personal preference I went with an air cooler. Plenty of people use AIOs and they work great so it comes down to knowing what both can bring to the table and then picking what you think fits your needs best.

AIO pros and cons: They look awesome (most of them), they perform really well, often easy to install, most cases support them, don't have to worry much about motherboard clearance with things like PCIe slots and RAM. They could but not likely at all to leak over the lifetime of the AIO, as the pump is a moving part there is always a chance for it to fail much like a HDD but most easily last the life of the PC, with flowing water and pump noise there are more components to make more noise in the case, they tend to be expensive. If you have a pump failure out of warranty chances are you need to replace the entire AIO.

Air coolers P and C: They often are cheaper, there are much quieter models out for silent cooling, less than can even fail as fans are the only mechanical moving part, if a fan fails you can just swap the fan instead of a whole new cooler, some higher models like the dark rock pro 3/4 and noctua NHD-15 perform as well as AIOs. They can take up a lot of room so case clearance needs to be checked, ram slot coverage and PCIe slots can be compromised by a massive cooler, people don't always like the looks of them but I like the looks of my DRP3, some of them can be much harder to install but is not the case for noctua coolers.

As for space requirements I use the Dark Rock Pro 3 myself and I have an ASRock AB350m Pro4 motherboard. The very top PCIe slot is a 1x slot for a wifi card if I choose to add one but my cooler overhangs that slot. Not an issue for me because I never planned to use that slot but if it was another motherboard where the top PCI slot is the 16x slot for the video card then I might have an issue. I also had to get the Corsair Vengeance LPX memory to fit under the fans of the cooler since the cooler did overhang my ram slots. Not an issue with low profile ram. Also both fans need to fail for cooling to stop but even then you have the thermal mass of the cooler itself. If you want to see what it looks like I got picks on my Ryzen Stealth build.

You do not have to fear using an AIO and there are also great air coolers out there too. Just soo many options to pick from.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How much intake and exhaust should I have."

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

I would do 3 fans in 3 fans out. The 2 at the front as intake and the 3 at the top for the AIO radiator. Too bad I don't see a dust filter in the bottom fan spot in front of the PSU as that would make the 3rd intake fan for neutral air pressure and provide better airflow to the GPU. That is important as the GPU is the most sensitive to temps for its boost clocks compared to a CPU.

The GTX 1080 can give some decent heat but the CPU can be a monster especially when overclocked for heat gen. Threadripper can generate more heat then the FX-9XXX CPUs but you are talking a 16 core 32 thread monster in comparison. Having the rad from the AIO as an output should help keep the CPU heat away from the GPU and away from the VRMs on the motherboard. With 6 fans in the case there should be enough crossflow of air to keep the VRMs cool as well if you plan to overclock.

What do you plan to use this PC for? Business 3d modeling? Serious content creation? DNA mapping? Advanced scientific simulations? I don't think it will be used for a server considering the storage options and GPU. Also I would not think to be gaming either as there are much cheaper CPUs that will deliver much more performance for gaming since games can't really use a ton of CPU cores.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "I3-8350k or i5-8400"

  • 22 months ago
  • 3 points

None of those games listed can take advantage of a ton of cores and there are 2 differences between the i3-8350k and the i5-8400. Both will need a new motherboard for coffeelake and both will game rather well. In games that can only use 2-4 cores the i3 will have the lead if you overclock it to a much higher rate than the boost clocks of the i5. The i5 still wins hands down multicore power due to 6 cores over 4 and still has a decent clock speed.

Basically the decision comes down to how much performance you want vs longevity of the CPU. Future games are starting to take advantage of more cores and with a z370 chipset board and an aftermarket cooler like the Cryorig H7 you can enable all core boost on the i5 and its top single core boost will apply to all cores. Think of it as half fast overclocking that works on non K skew intel chips. With the i3 and decent cooling you are likely able to get it to 5 GHz in speeds which is 1GHz faster than the i5 turbo boost. Both will give awesome performance but one has a lead on 4 core CPU speed and the other has 6 core multithreaded power. The i5-8600k has the best of both worlds but costs more and I would not recommend an i7-8700k for just gaming as practically nothing will benefit from the extra threads game wise compared to the i5.

I know you said you don't care to stream but FYI when you are using a dedicated GPU like your GTX 1060 you can still re-enable the Intel iGPU in the bios then use that to live encode. Streaming programs like OBS can be set to use Intel Quick Sync to use the iGPU instead of the CPU or GPU. I tested this myself using a Pentium G4600 and livestreaming WoW. Both the i3 and i5 can do this along with the newer Ryzen APUs. Though for OBS to use Ryuzen there was a Patch to allow it to use the iGPU. You don't need a mega core count CPU or super high end GPU to be able to stream.

Comment reply on puppy_punter's Completed Build: Old and gold budget beast

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Well a lot of programs running on a home PC isn't as CPU demanding as it is ram demanding. For example Google Chrome with like 50+ tabs open barely uses 4% of my ryzen CPU but is taking up 6GB of my ram. Games can use a good amount of CPU power but are still limited to the number of cores a game can even utilize. If you want to see the kind of multitasking that can use that much CPU Linus Tech Tips did one here 7 Gamers 1 CPU is back! LTT. Most people's extreme multitasking can really be handled by a 4 core CPU.

Also as far as the AMD or Intel argument I am not a fanboy of either company so I will never recommend a CPU brand on name alone. Both AMD and Intel have decent products out now so both have something that will work for you and neither is a bad choice.

HardwareCanucks did a video with the Ryzen 7 1700x and tested it with gaming AND video rendering which is really CPU demanding at the same time and the 8 core 16 thread CPU just destroys those workloads like a boss. We Switched to AMD Ryzen! TOTALLY WORTH IT! . Now with Ryzen 2 out getting to 4.2 GHz on an 8 core chip will play games really well and have soo much brute power for mega multitasking. If you get a 12 to 16 core TR and only overclock it to 3.7 GHz on all cores you will actually get less performance if you don't really benefit from having that many cores and it will cost you a LOT more money.

Comment reply on aiden77's Completed Build: The North (My First Build)

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Nice build. I am just not a fan of any PC case that completely chokes the front intake fans by limiting air intake to 2 tiny slits a the top and bottom of the front panel. Both HardwareCanucks and Gamers Nexus did videos about this dumb trend.

Sad thing is many cases are following this trend. Science Studio did a review on this case and pointed out how bad the air intakes are overall.

Overall great build and decent job on cable management so I hope this PC serves you well.

Comment reply on Revingston's Completed Build: Any love for Intel NUCs??

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

That is tiny, much smaller than my HTPC.

How loud does it get when you are running it at full load? The RX 470 GPU I moved to my Black Ice HTPC that used to be in my Ryzen Stealth build does get rather noisy at full load but luckily when watching videos its fan doesn't even turn on. Just when playing games.

Comment reply on puppy_punter's Completed Build: Old and gold budget beast

  • 22 months ago
  • 3 points

Well a hybrid drive is better than a regular HDD but is not as good as a SSD. SSDs do however add a huge quality of life improvement for using the PC and I am SSD spoiled myself. If the OP wants to buy himself a SSD now for the current PC to have faster loading times then that is up to him. He can easily move said SSD to the new PC once he builds it. However if he doesn't buy a SSD he will just have the same load times as he already has and no matter the choice his FPS will not change as SSDs do not add any FPS.

TL:DR, He can upgrade with a SSD now if he wants but he isn't shooting himself in the foot if he doesn't.

Comment reply on Tironfate's Completed Build: White Ring of Meshify

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

I know World of Warcraft only really uses 2 CPU cores so the CPU single core speed is what matters most for WoW performance. So hopefully you were able to dial in a decent overclock on your CPU ;-)

The video card you selected is more than ample to handle max settings on the 3 games you listed @ 1080p so nice pick there. If you are wanting to do livestreaming I hope you have a decent internet connection with high upload speeds. I got a 10mbps upload and it struggles on 1080p 30 fps for the upload so I need to drop it to 720p to avoid dropped frames. Not a huge issue for me since most of my videos I record to my drive and upload later on so I can get top quality on the recording quality.

Comment reply on puppy_punter's Completed Build: Old and gold budget beast

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Well I did do a rather long winded post on another thread showing my experiences with my FX 8320 with both my Ryzen 7 1800x and my pentium g4600. Check it out Here as I don't feel like retyping it lol. It is a great way to see the difference just the CPU makes to gaming.

Threadripper is a rather awesome beast for content creation and other multi threaded workloads but sadly it is not something I would recommend for someone who games or only does side video editing and isn't serious in it. The problem is that games just don't scale across a ton of CPU cores, most only scale between 2 to 4 cores with some triple A titles able to use 6. The drawback is the more cores you have the slower each core runs as a whole because you become limited to both power delivery and thermal limits. Thus a 12-16 core threadripper may deliver less gaming performance than much cheaper CPUs as it is not a gaming CPU par say.

You don't even need to consider getting more cores for live streaming because a CPU with an integrated GPU can handle the encoding for upload just fine on its own. I included that test using a G4600 CPU in the long winded post I just linked. A Ryzen 6 or 8 core CPU or a coffeelake i5 or i7 will still be monsters at video editing if you do it as a hobby and will still get great clocks for awesome gaming performance. I would push the x299 and x399 platforms into the enterprise or business line where all those extra cores can actually be put to work.

Also it is possible nVidia will release some newer GPUs between this summer to fall that will replace the 1080 TI.

Comment reply on Taki117's Completed Build: Taki's Gaming Rig

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Depends on the game. Many MMOs and open world games are limited to one core due to a secure client server processing engine that they use so they can suffer with CPUs that have lower single core speed. CPU speed is essentially clock speed multiplied by IPC (Instructions Per Clock). IPC is how much work a CPU can do per clock cycle.

To use World of Warcraft as an example let me link a couple video examples of my own recordings. Just to get the hardware info and game settings out of the way the first video was recorded with 17 people in the raid and had custom low graphics where textures were maxed but anything that affected CPU like shadows, ground clutter, physic interactions, view distance, all dropped down low. It was on a FX 8320 CPU I overclocked to 4.7 GHz and ran my RX 470 video card: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2rc45usGwQ

For my 2nd example video this is after I upgraded my PC to a Ryzen 7 1800x CPU and I didn't buy a new video card so this was recorded with the exact same RX 470. I ran 10 ultra settings with view distance and ground clutter reduced to 7 so by far higher game settings. I have my Ryzen CPU overclocked as well to 4.0 GHz and the raid was the same size of 17 people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrNRhwwDz2w

Now for both of those videos hit the gear in the bottom right corner and set speed to 0.5 and watch things that are moving such as spells flying through the air and that will exaggerate the difference in performance between the 2. Sorry I don't usually have FPS showing on my boss kill videos but even at full speed I can see the difference in the stutters night and day while others may not see it as well as I do so the slowdown feature in youtube will help you see what I do. 15-20FPS dips on low settings VS. 50 FPS dips on nearly maxed settings it a HUGE difference.

Hell even my g4600 out performed the FX CPU at 4.7 GHz when I did the livestream test using the igpu to handle OBS's transcoding. The stream itself may not have been smooth but for this test I did enable the FPS viewer in the bottom center and it only had a couple FPS dips in the 40s at 7 preset setting which was still far higher than the FX PC had. The LFR I did had 25 people in it and the more people there are on your screen the lower your framerate will dip. The stream was only 720p @ 30fps so it will have a bit of stutter in the stream compared to the 2nd video example that I recorded at 1080p 60fps. The FX system wasn't getting 30 fps on boss fights so there was little incentive to try and record any higher. That video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rQb2Jhef6M

When you have such a performance improvement in gaming from a highly OC FX CPU to even a budget pentium CPU and even more with higher CPUs this is why there is so much hate for the FX line. Not to mention 54w power drain on the G4600 vs the 220w on the FX. If the CPU is working out for you then at least it is working but I thought I would share my experiences dealing with these CPUs first hand. Now there are a number of people that will think that the performance I got on my FX CPU is acceptable and that is not for me to argue with I just wanted to show how much of a gain it was for me to get a much better CPU.

Comment reply on Tetsuclaw's Completed Build: Ryzen Stealth!

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

When her fur gets caught in the dust filters it helps filter even more dust out of the air. Coincidentally enough I actually just upgraded the GPU to a MSI GTX 1070 aero ITX card then moved the rx 470 to my Black Ice HTPC build about a week ago.

Comment reply on Bermudachili's Completed Build: AMD Ryzen 5 1500X (First Build)

  • 22 months ago
  • 2 points

Decent budget PC and I can see it doing well with most games at 1080p. There are some newer triple A game titles out that are using more than 8GB of ram but at least you got 4 ram slots on the board for easy ram upgrades in the future. Ram prices suck atm......

Comment reply on eaka's Completed Build: ML Rig Workstation 4x 1080 tis

  • 22 months ago
  • 4 points

Water cooling I think is the only way to cool that many high powered GPUs cooled when they are that close to each other. Smart choice getting hybrid coolers. Excuse me while I sit in the corner being jelly of this PC....... I only got a GTX 1070 and a RX 470 in both my PCs lol.

Comment reply on puppy_punter's Completed Build: Old and gold budget beast

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

So about ~$200 on perferiels, ~$200 on GPU, and not much for the rest of the PC I think you did a decent job back in 2016. Sure the FX CPUs are falling too far behind today but as long as it does what you need it to do.

If you were to plan to upgrade today I would suggest either a Ryzen 3 2200g+budget mobo+ddr4 ram or i3-8100+budget mobo+ddr4 ram. Both re-using your GPU, case, PSU, storage, etc. I got a RX 470 myself and used to be in my main gaming rig before I upgraded to a GTX 1070. I since moved it to my HTPC since I like to game on my TV too with games that work with my wireless controllers (and emulators too). Dolphin emulator for wii games plays really well on a RX 470.

Comment reply on LollyPC's Completed Build: My First PC Build

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

For case selection he could have done much worse. Example: MasterCase H500P and MasterBox Lite 5 since both basically choke the front intake fans making them nothing more than aesthetic accents with no function. At least the case on this build will still do its job well even with a older layout design.

Overall great build and great job on cable management for a first try.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "SSD Portable Storage Device"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

Good choice and well priced for external HDD. Is only 5400rpm when I looked online but I am sure it should easily fit your stated needs still and it is 3TB in size.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "SSD Portable Storage Device"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

If all it is meant for is media then I would just go HDD. If it is the form factor of a 2.5" SSD you can easily get a 2.5" HDD too. SSDs really shine in their ability of loading a ton of smaller files (say booting windows and running programs) but the speed difference with say movies is usually moot compared to a HDD. They will have a better overall transfer speed but a 7200 RPM HDD can transfer videos at a great speed too.

For example you can get a Western Digital - Black 1TB 2.5" 7200RPM HDD for about $63 USD and spend about $10 USD on a External HDD SATA Case USB 3.0 Enclosure for 2.5". Not the cheapest way to get an external 1TB HDD but far cheaper than a SSD.

You can buy a pre-assembled external HDD for as low as $50 USD too but I doubt the cheap ones will have 7200rpm drives and some may require external power (need to check before buying) instead of just being powered by USB like the one I listed above. Link here: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/external-hard-drive/overall-list/#i=4&S=1000000,2000000&sort=price&page=1

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Should I upgrade my ryzen 1700 to the new ryzen 2?"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

I would not bother, you may get a few hundred more MHz out of it but I don't think that would be worth the cost just yet. Also the r7 1700 is still an awesome CPU so you won't be hurting at all if you don't upgrade, especially in the wallet department lol.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "yikes that tdp"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

And that is not even x299 or x399 platform too!

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Budget CPU choice"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

This is what I will agree full heartedly on. I play a lot of wow and I know with a GTX 1060 6GB card in the PC the game is still bottlenecked at the CPU even if it was an i7-8700k OC to 5.3 GHz. Other much more GPU bound games will be bottlenecked at the GPU even when paired with a dual core pentium.

The general logic is to pair the range of a GPU with the same range of CPU for most people for the average gaming PC. Currently the low end CPUs are really damn good now such as the r3 2200g or the i3 8100. I would consider the GTX 1060 6gb as just getting into the mid range GPUs so a nice mid range CPU is either a 6 core Ryzen CPU or an i5 8600. That being said I doubt there will be much bottlenecking on a 1060 6gb with the r3-2200g or the i3-8100.

If you fancy the idea of livestreaming your gaming then I would suggest to be sure to get a CPU with a built in GPU such as the processors I have mentioned in my post so far. Even with a video card installed you can enable the igpu in the bios as well. That way a program like OBS can use the igpu for the encoding to take the load off the rest of the PC. For Ryzen APUs it does require an additional patch to be installed with obs but it can be used too. How good is streaming using the iGPU? Take a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rQb2Jhef6M

Keep in mind in large raids in WoW (20-30 people in size) can cause 40-50 fps lows on any system due to how the game engine works. Even the latest i7 can't get away from that. This was also on a Pentium G4600 and both the i3 8100 and r3 2200g are much better CPUs.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Do Boards Matter For Overclock?"

  • 22 months ago
  • 1 point

I didn't bother looking up the VRMs for that board but in my experience MSI tends to cheap out on their VRM chips quite often so I tend to look elsewhere for overclocking boards. That being said that is one of the higher boards MSI has so it should be able to do a moderate overclock. It looks like it may have a 6+4 phase VRM but if it pairs up the chokes which they have in the past it could potentially be a 3+2 or 3+4 VRM board.

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